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Polyphon-Automat 12 von 1910. Polyphon-Musikwerke Aktien-Gesellschaft, Leipzig-Wahren.
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roaring20s
Sat Feb 24 2024, 18:40pm Print View
Joined: Fri Feb 23 2024, 21:35pm
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 9
 Hello. This is my first post here.
I mostly post on The Talking Machine Forum.

My searches have shown that the attached photo is likely a Mammut or a period vendor creation using Mammut parts. The dates I have seen range between 1908 and 1920. I have not yet found any photos showing this motor or any paper labels to further identify it. I hope the following will be of assistance in this search.

I read on this forum, posted by PONOPHON, that a catalog exists called “Musikindustrie Immenstadt”. Does it list a Number 12 model? If it does list it, is it listed as a coin operated phonograph?

The motor pictured has PWAII in the casting, does this identify it as a Mammut or another maker?

Does the style of the label identify it as a Mammut or another maker?

The style of the tonearm return mechanism also seems to be unique to this phonograph.

All comments and links providing more information are happily accepted.

Thanks,
James.





[ Edited Mon Feb 26 2024, 13:26pm ]
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DGAG
Sun Feb 25 2024, 00:44am

Joined: Sun Dec 31 2017, 12:30pm
Location: Berlin
Posts: 672
 This is a coin-operated Polyphon-Automat 12 (St. = "Starkton") of 1910 from Polyphon-Musikwerke Aktien-Gesellschaft, Leipzig-Wahren. Link - Hier klicken
Unfortunately, the catalogue does not show any motors, but PWAII apparently stands for "Polyphon-Werke Automat II", whereby "II" is the Roman numeral 2.




[ Edited Sun Feb 25 2024, 01:05am ]
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roaring20s
Sun Feb 25 2024, 07:00am
Joined: Fri Feb 23 2024, 21:35pm
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 9
 Wonderfull! That catalog is great. Thank you for linking it DGAG. :-)

The following is very interesting …
Link - Hier klicken
If you view 29:37 - 31:58, Rainer Mailard tells when Polyphon Musikwerke AG changed to Polyphon-Werke AG.

One could now speculate that if the casting on the motor PWAII stands for Polyphon-Werke Aktiengesellschaft II. This machine would then be made as early as 1917.

A brief search shows the last minting of the Austro-Hungarian 10 Heller coin was 1916. After that, a paper 10 Heller note was issued and finally demonetized in 1922. It may be important to note that the metal slot is not marked with a price or decorated. To add to my confusion, I found that the Czechoslovak Republic used a Haleru (Heller) Coin starting in 1922.

Circa 1920 seems a plausible statement to make for a date. This may also relate to the simplification in the tonearm as compared to the 1910 catalog.

When and what would be the coin operated phonograph successor in the marketplace?

When was the pictured soundbox typically used and is it a better or average type for its day?

Thanks,
James.




[ Edited Sun Feb 25 2024, 07:02am ]
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DGAG
Sun Feb 25 2024, 16:36pm

Joined: Sun Dec 31 2017, 12:30pm
Location: Berlin
Posts: 672
roaring20s wrote ...

The following is very interesting …
Link - Hier klicken
If you view 29:37 - 31:58, Rainer Mailard tells when Polyphon Musikwerke AG changed to Polyphon-Werke AG.

It was a nice presentation. I was one of the invited guests.

roaring20s wrote ...

One could now speculate that if the casting on the motor PWAII stands for Polyphon-Werke Aktiengesellschaft II. This machine would then be made as early as 1917.

I don't think your speculation is valid. The catalogue already says "6-Minuten Automatenwerk". "A" simply stands for "Automat". For comparison, this is what a standard "6-Minuten Laufwerk", labelled P.W.II, from the Polyphon 2 model (without automatic operation) in the same catalogue of 1910, looks like.



Link - Hier klicken

roaring20s wrote ...

Circa 1920 seems a plausible statement to make for a date. This may also relate to the simplification in the tonearm as compared to the 1910 catalog.

I would agree with you about the modified arm design, but ss production collapsed after 1914/15 due to the First World War and the resulting lack of labour, I would not date this gramophone later than that.
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roaring20s
Sun Feb 25 2024, 18:29pm
Joined: Fri Feb 23 2024, 21:35pm
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 9
 Thank you for further clarifying. I have combed the internet many hours for little substance. I have a good imagination and try to form a view from what had been found. It's good to know the information that you have provided. You have been most helpful! Best regards.
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roaring20s
Tue Feb 27 2024, 03:35am
Joined: Fri Feb 23 2024, 21:35pm
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 9
 Thanks for updating the title of the post.

Here are photos of the motor and case that belong with this thread.





[ Edited Tue Feb 27 2024, 03:38am ]
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roaring20s
Tue Feb 27 2024, 03:41am
Joined: Fri Feb 23 2024, 21:35pm
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 9
 another ...
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roaring20s
Tue Feb 27 2024, 03:42am
Joined: Fri Feb 23 2024, 21:35pm
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 9
 another ...
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roaring20s
Tue Feb 27 2024, 03:42am
Joined: Fri Feb 23 2024, 21:35pm
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 9
 another ...
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roaring20s
Tue Feb 27 2024, 03:43am
Joined: Fri Feb 23 2024, 21:35pm
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 9
 last photo ...
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roaring20s
Sat Mar 02 2024, 00:34am
Joined: Fri Feb 23 2024, 21:35pm
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 9
 Here is a video of the motor operating ...
Link - Hier klicken

If you would like a copy of it, I suggest downloading it.
This link will only be available for a limited time.

James.
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DGAG
Sun Mar 03 2024, 09:23am

Joined: Sun Dec 31 2017, 12:30pm
Location: Berlin
Posts: 672
 Hello James,

thank you very much for the many additional images and the video of how the coin mechanism works. There should be something like this for every machine presented here.

Stephan
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